Meeting with Shadow Minister for Education; Jillian Skinner 12/12/2003
PRESENT: Jillian Skinner, Victor Davidson, Robyn Lynch, Judy Townsend, Maggie Roche

Jillian understood the issues instantly and was interested in what the solutions are. A lot of it came back to strong central support.

A big thankyou to Judy and Robyn for travelling down on a rainy Friday afternoon, at some cost to Robyn's windscreen : (  It was wonderful to have them !!

Quotes of the week:

• We are the most expensive, overqualified babysitters in the country.
• Maths teachers don't have to negotiate every year to teach Maths; why should we have to negotiate to do our job?
• DOS ??????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Flexible scheduling is vital for teaching and learning programs to improve. There are a number of primary teacher-librarians with the best possible situations - cooperative planning and teaching; integrated programs. What happens though is that classroom teachers are so locked into the old concept of weekly lessons that it is a constant uphill battle. Of course TLs negotiate the way with each teacher they work with, as they are exhorted to. But there has been nothing (other than the TLs) to tell them that there is is a better way. The culture is very strong in NSW schools. Weekly lessons are very nice if one wants to teach 'a lesson'. However students need much, much more than that.

When so many teacher-librarians are limited to weekly timetables, they are obviously seen as  'teachers of lessons' and are thus not able to encourage resource-based learning in all its glory. The professional community has suffered as a result, through its professional development activities, networking, ideas sharing and dialogue, putting its attention elsewhere. Are we flogging a 'dead horse'? We think not. Research has shown that flexible or semi-flexible scheduling, of integrated programs, makes a difference.

Many teacher-librarians who have been unable to have full flexible scheduling, envy and admire those that do. (There are some in this state.) However, to give teachers credit - their week is very full, they are very busy, and it is possible that it is not always feasible. That is not a problem, as long as there is SOME flexibility. (The research supports that.)

We would like at some time to invite Dr. Joy McGregor from Charles Sturt University to speak about flexible scheduling. She has done research in this area and can explain it far better than we can. Perhaps that could even happen with a broader audience.

We are very encouraged, excited even by a recent Scan article.

'Reframing the role of the teacher-librarian: the case for collaboration and flexibility' in Scan August 2003 p.4-7
Rod Gibbs, Principal Barnier Public School

"Changing school culture is a challenging proposition. Institutionalised systems and structures in schools have traditionally limited growth and change. One of the greatest challenges a principal faces is developing structures that lead to real innovation. Schools can become entrenched in habitual modes of operation, often because 'that is the way it has always been done.'      ...

The role of the teacher-librarian needs reframing into a dynamic, flexible, collaborative process that is aligned with classroom programs and reflects school vision, beliefs and values.

It is wonderful to see this addressed, after a long period of avoidance/absence/silence. Congratulations to all concerned. (Maggie to all)
 

Graeham - interesting ideas and worth exploring. Why don't we incorporate this into a meeting - i.e. a general discussion of these issues; it would be worthwhile for everyone to talk about this.

PRESENT: Graeham Kennedy (relieving Director Personnel Programs), John Healey (Personnel Programs), Lyn Wendtman (Assistant Director Prof Support &Curriculum), Vince Gee (Senior Manager, Applications, Information Technology Directorate, Di Simpson (ALIA), Victor Davidson (ASLA), Maggie Roche

APOLOGIES: Rob Randall, Wayne Houston

RESTRUCTURE
SCAN
Lyn Wendtman, Assistant Director Curriculum Support and Professional Development, was enthusuastic about Scan, used to read it as a principal, enjoys being able to refer back to articles and research findings in hard copy, is aware that TLs prefer hard copy. Believes that not appearing on restructure model was a mistake? it slipped off in the hurly burly of the process? A working party is looking at how it will happen, can not say if it will go back with school libraries or to online learning. Online learning is a misnomer, it is bigger than that, they want to consolidate all areas dealing with learning materials, so that all materials will be available to all students in the state. eg distance learning materials will be made available to all.

Scan will definitely remain, and in hard copy. Subscriptions have been taken, first issue on the go. Would like to see online presence grow, will stay as is for immmediate future. There would be discussion with client base before changing.

SCIS
We were urged to email our response to the restructure feedback section on the DET website. The deadline is 4/11
Email: feedback@det.nsw.edu.au

INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY UPDATE  (Vince Gee)

MS WINDOWS INTERFACE FOR OASIS LIBRARY
The project team reports to the steering committee, tomorrow 31st October, on the recommended process of implementation following the trial, and costing. (Training first, with some relief days, and some assistance with set-up.) If accepted, (expected timeframe one month) a submission will be made to the Board of Management for funding.

All relevant modules of Alice have been included. In response to query about Oliver, it was said that Alice has a browser based interface.

When will there be provision to update library computers?
The guidelines for use of rollout computers have loosened and become very broad, (i.e. recent letter) as there needs to be better access for teachers to computers to access DET functions.

It was made very clear that library computers should be updated using the rollout, and that we will need to lobby our schools for adjustment.

WEB SERVICES
When will it happen?
The modules in OASIS update are for use down the track… don’t know when yet.
40 pilots so far, will go to Federation by the end of the year.

What will it entail?
As Laureen said, it sounds very useful. Email addresses will be uploaded, and parent permissions entered and stored in OASIS to minimise additional workload. Students won’t be able to use until permission activated. (Guessing that is relying on Windows interface? There is talk of investigating that for OASIS Admin, but it will need to be designed from scratch as they don't have an Alice eqivalent) There will be a variety of web publishing options.

Will people be able to access their school email outside school, or intranet only?
Vince will check.

Will there be any monitoring of DET email?
YES – it will be filtered.

Is the Department going to issue guidelines about the use of email?
YES There will be a standard AUP set up by DET that will apply to the whole state.

When will teachers have remote access to DET services: DET intranet, upload web pages?
They took note of our request.

TECH SUPPORT REVIEW? * urgently needed
OOPs sorry we didn’t get to this one, ran out of time. Will follow up.

TEACHING and LEARNING, and TECHNOLOGY IN THE LIBRARY
Victor had been invited to give a presentation. He described how he teaches location skills to Year 7; OASIS Enquiry using an activity booklet, and slowing down internet searches using Google directories and Yahoo subject trees.

Graeham asked if he did that in the context of what teachers are teaching; wanting to know if there is communication involved. (- indicating an interest, you'll be pleased to know, in cooperative planning and teaching, of integrated programs.)

Victor described the Web n Flo program, run by ASLA & PTC and supported by Curriculum Directorate, and the proposed CD in which ASLA will collect examples of best practice.

They seemed genuinely interested in how TLs support teachers and their teaching and learning in the school, and the use of ICT in the educational process.  Perhaps next year we could invite Colleen to nominate some teacher-librarians who could talk about how they work with teachers, integrating information literacy into the syllabus, and developing the quality teaching dimensions in the discussion paper.

They were  interested in the possibilities of sharing teaching resources.

CURRICULUM SUPPORT AND PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT  (Lyn Wendtman)

SCIS and SCAN (see above)

TEACHING and LEARNING EXCHANGE   http://tale.det.nsw.edu.au/
Lyn confirmed that the first step is in place. Next year, they expect it to move ahead at a rapid pace. They were curious to know whether Victor shares his teaching materials, so we can be sure they would welcome material from the rest of us. Something for us to take on board: let's make sure we remember to get our bits and pieces ready for them next year, so that information literacy etc etc is well-represented and our support materials are widely available !!

CORE COLLECTION
What constitutes a core collection? How was it determined? How will it be monitored and updated?
Lyn described the process of setting up a committee, making decisions such as ensuring choice, diversity and balance, with the capacity for schools to meet their needs, and embedding best practice. After consultation, a draft list has been produced. It will be revised every two years, so that it is never more than two years out of date. Eight primary schools are starting next year. The list is available on request; and will go online later. There is potential for any school to use it later.

Books will be delivered as shelf-ready as possible. They will recommend it go to tender to get best price and value. Processing cost when combined with good discounts is still looking reasonable. Lyn made the interesting point that canny producers may explore further possibilities. Colleen is happy to answer questions.

REVIEW OF LIBRARY POLICY / GUIDELINES
Review of policy and procedures is scheduled for 2004. Rob has passed on to Lyn the task of thinking about a way forward for this, so she asked us for feedback. Of course it is on the backburner at the moment, but there seems to be agreement that it will be useful. We broke it down into two groups of needs. Because it was so well-designed, it is still applicable, and is used effectively as is. However it needs updating because it is old, information literacy is so pertinent, there are new developments, and it needs fresh availability.

We highlighted a second need, that of disseminating DET guidelines such as the ADMIN statement, which is only available to schools via copies of individual letters by Virginia Chadwick over ten years ago. We had all been concerned previously that this might be an industrial issue, and therefore Federation business, not ours, however we checked with a senior Federation officer who said it is not industrial, as it is existing DET policy.  Graeham didn't understand why we would want these sorts of things in the library policy. We have noted the need to discuss central support for school based management at a later date.

John asked the question 'What is it you think is missing in the Library Policy?'
I spoke for myself, and said flexible scheduling is an example of what was omitted. We were invited to talk about the process or structure with Lyn next year. A working party will be convened. She will also clarify exactly which documents will be revised. As the handbook is expected to have periodic updates; it is the policy and 'Information skills in the school' which have been static.

SASS REVIEW
DET is discussing the funding budget with Treasury, as there is no capacity internally to fund. They now await feedback; there is no timeframe.

Time ran out, there was a lot we didn't get to. They were very gracious about being prepared to meet again in November, however we suggested we wait until next year, given the cirumstances. They invited us to link up, or convene a teleconference if needed.

NEXT MEETING: 4^th March, 2004

PRESENT: Graeham Kennedy (A/Director Personnel Programs), John Healey (Personnel Programs), Rob Randall (Director Prof Support &Curriculum), Raju Varanasi (relieving Director Technology Services), Di Simpson (ALIA), Victor Davidson (ASLA), Maggie Roche

1.  SASS REVIEW
The first report has been finalised. There is a proposal identifying four new grades, something like: -

    1. school / classroom support officer - working across all areas
    2. administrative officer - with specific specialisation eg library / lab / TAS
    3. assistant administrative manager - adding office support in larger schools or a cluster of small eg finance
    4. administrative manager - with three grades, and with new roles and responsibilities

They are aligned to public service grades, offer substantive career path options, and increased hours with enhanced flexibility for higher levels. The proposals are being put forward for discussion and the formal process of consultation.

Information will be needed about how the grades are allocated to schools; will they be linked to size of schools?

2. INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY UPDATE
Report from Raju Varanasi, relieving Wayne Houston

2.1 OASIS UPGRADE
The trial of the Windows interface for OASIS Library is looking at different models of installation and training. This is still being proposed as an interim measure.

One model involves training this week, at St Leonards for 20 schools, and at Tamworth. The trial is assisting DET learn what the full cost would be. Feedback from the trials will be gathered in September. Based on this a submission will be proposed to roll it out statewide. Therefore this is not a sure thing yet, but Raju was hopeful.

The upgrade of Admin and Finance is still in the early stages; this will be a full replacement (library to follow). The need for transfer of data to OASIS Library has been identified.

2.2 WEB SERVICES
There has been a limited trial of seven schools. This will be expanded to 50 schools very soon, over two districts, one metropolitan and one regional. It is a phased introduction, so DET learns from it as it goes.

2.3 TECH SUPPORT REVIEW
This trial has expanded from 50 to 200 schools, catering for Windows, Mac and Novell. The question is: How is the remote solution working? Is there a generic model, allowing for some variations? It will be monitored over the next six months. Evaluation will finish in November, and a report will be submitted to senior management.

3 CURRICULUM SUPPORT and PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT
Report from Rob Randall

3.1. INFORMATION SKILLS and CROSS CURRIULUM SUPPORT DOCUMENTS
Follow up of suggestions from last meeting has not been possible due to post-election requirements. There has been a need to look at redirection of T&D resources to schools, and ascertain which elements of the directorate and its services will be be refocused. When there is clarity around new arrangements and resourcing, they will move on/back to new projects.

3.2 LIBRARY POLICY
The question was asked of the relevance/status of a policy dated 1987, and the possibility of an update. Rob agreed that it does need to be looked at. The DET, in general, is needing to clarify its policies and guidelines. Rob would be happy to bring it forward; REFRESH it, in that larger context, when other preliminary policies are in place. That would involve working through what process would be needed, and what that would mean for his, and other directorates.

3.3 DISTRIBUTION of DOCUMENTS
There was informal discussion, again, highlighting the need for more thorough discussion.

3.4 QUALITY TEACHING IN NSW PUBLIC SCHOOLS - DISCUSSION PAPER
Victor applauded the publishing of this paper. Rob made the point that it is to be used over a period of years, to assist schools, and to inform all areas. Di made the point that it is indeed the core business of school libraries, and the question was formulated by Rob: How does the library, and the school's resources, contribute to this?

4 TEACHER-LIBRARIAN QUALIFICATIONS
John Healey attended the meeting to assist with the answering of the question raised at the last meeting ie seeking clarification of the agreement between Federation and DET in December re advertised positions. It was emphatically agreed that qualifications are needed, and confirmed that if positions are not filled by transfer, and go to advertisement, qualifications or accreditation shall be a criteria.

4.1 'ACCREDITED' - What does it mean?
DET and Federation have different definitions. (To Federation, accredited means having been in a position for two year or more, ie experience) To DET, accredited means having approved training. Non-accredited means having experience only. This doesn't solve the issues highlighted by Gavin, as training may be provided by the DET course, or tertiary qualifications. The complexity of transfers was noted. The question was raised of ALIA's current role in accreditation of qualifications. Di will follow-up.

4.2 'WILLING TO UNDERTAKE TRAINING'
The request was made for this to be a more explicit requirement, as people can state they are 'willing', but (for all sorts of reasons) fail to do so. John observed that this would hamper their mobility to another appointment, but it was noted that some don't need mobility.

4.3 DET SUPPORT for the GAINING of QUALIFICATIONS
A request was made for some thinking and reassessment to be carried out in this area. If the money isn't available for sponsorship of post graduate courses, other options need to be explored.

NEXT MEETING 23 September (followed by 25 November. 3.00pm)

PRESENT: Trish Kelly (Director Personnel), Rob Randall (Director Prof Support &Curriculum), Bill Tomlin (R Director Technology Services), Victor Davidson (ASLA), Maggie Roche
APOLOGIES: ALIA (Beth McLaren has withdrawn due to an expanded work responsibility in Community / Cultural Services. There wasn’t enough time to find a replacement)

1. INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY UPDATE
Report from Bill Tomlin, relieving Wayne Houston

1.1. OASIS UPGRADE
The DET has been looking at systems to replace / upgrade OASIS. It is still being assessed whether TAFE and DET would share a system, or remain separate. The DET is not in a position to buy ALICE, as they have been told OASIS / ALICE will change / be replaced in the near future. They are designing a Windows interface as an interim strategy, in response to requests for interoperability. ie a program is being written to operate OASIS DOS in the Windows environment. This is pretty much prepared, they are now looking at how to implement it most effectively, trialling it in a few schools. One of the biggest hurdles, that of bandwidth, is being addressed, as by 2004 the vast majority of schools will have high speed. Once that is in place, DET can look at better ways of doing business.

Victor raised the question of TAFE and DET using different catalogue standards, and Rob asked if this interface will allow the opening up of catalogued weblinks, as requested by Victor at the last meeting. Bill didn’t know, will investigate.

1.2. TECH SUPPORT REVIEW
DET’s assessment of how to provide better tech support to schools, and return the Computer Coordinators to the teaching role (aims shared by Federation and CCs) will finish by the end of this year. Trials, using six models, will end in Term 2. They are looking at the value of GProxy servers, eg use for remote tech support, and other services. The scope is broad, including centralised delivery of software to classrooms etc.

1.3. ICT REFERENCE GROUP
This was established at the end of 2002, with one meeting in Term 4. Representation includes CCs TA PSA Federation. They will be happy to have teacher-librarians included; the next meeting may be held next term. Victor and Bill will follow up.
 

2 CURRICULUM SUPPORT UPDATE

2.1 INFORMATION SKILLS IN THE SCHOOL
Victor asked if the document could be updated. Rob agreed that it needs updating, but raised the question How?. He has had talks about this and the library policy but said the time has passed for publishing and printing new documents. They are exploring electronic publishing, to get a quicker turnaround, and use different formats. He favours smaller units and a more chunked approach, with the ability to add elements, and enable teachers to get in, in different ways, by tagging material effectively. This will also allow for targeting information to particular people, using the new portals and profiles approach that is coming with the ISP rollout. The questions are still being asked: How will people know information is there, and how confident will teachers be using it?

2.2 MAPPING INFORMATION SKILLS OUTCOMES IN SYLLABUS DOCUMENTS
In response to Victor’s request for a matrix of information skills, Rob said now that BOS has bedded down the syllabuses (a few months to finish), there will be an attempt to map cross curriculum outcomes. They will now be able to go across all documents, and will refresh some of the work done a while ago. This will be attended to in 12-24 months.

In summary, Rob knows the resources are there, and i) they need to be kept up to date, ii) they need to be filled out. This item will be carried over to the next meeting, for further update.

2.3 CORE LIBRARY COLLECTION
Rob asked if a core library collection for new libraries is a feasible thing to establish, allowing for teacher-librarian assessment of the school’s needs as well. There was agreement that it is, with discussion of broader use, for instance the need for all schools of value-added services such as up-to-date recommended resource lists to support syllabuses such as HSIE. (being that BOS lists not kept up-to-date). Rob offered to further explore possibilities for resource lists for units, interested in a finer level of support to teachers and learning.

3 OTHER ISSUES
Letters, case studies and viewpoints were tabled from Central Coast, Wollongong, and Clarence-Coffs Harbour Districts. Thanks also to Bronwyn Jackson, Bronwyn Stafford, Anni Tokatlian, Rosemary Bodlay and Gavin Sanders.

3.1 PREFERRED EMPLOYMENT OF QUALIFIED TLs
Thanks and congratulations were given for the December decision, reported by Sally in Education this week. Gavin’s questions were relayed, re accreditation and qualifications,  but Trish said she wasn’t part of the negotiating team, and didn’t know.

3.2 CLEANING
Issues compiled by NSWTL were tabled. The point was strongly made that it is legitimate for individuals to raise these sorts of issues at the school level, either with the principal, or the appropriate delegate. The principal would then pass it on as appropriate, for example to properties officer, or a reference group.

3.3 ADMIN TIME
It was unclear whether this is an industrial issue, or pre-existing policy that needs more effective communication. Maggie will seek advice from Federation.

Trish recommended establishing structure and focus for meetings
NEXT MEETING 10 June (followed by 23 September, 25 November. 3.00pm)
AGENDA: IT update, Curriculum support update, including intentions and plans to update curriculum support material), and professional development (new policies will be in place by June, whoever wins election) 

Trish Kelly (Director Personnel), Rob Randall (Director Prof Support &Curriculum), Wayne Houston (Director Technology Services)
Beth McLaren (ALIA), Victor Davidson (ASLA), Maggie Roche (NSWTL), Apologies Guri McKinnon (TLSIG)
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DET agreed that it is Federation’s role to negotiate industrial issues with the Minister and DET. The TL issues have been tabled with all three parties. We can forward information, but not enter debate.

DET would be happy to establish regular meetings, once a term, for a two-way information exchange on professional (non-industrial) issues. They have a lot of information they would like to give us, and they would like to know current views and responses from practitioners. This is consistent with Vinson’s call for more effective two-way communication in the satellite broadcast the same morning.
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1. Technology
1.1 When will library automation have a Windows environment, in keeping with the government's ICT plan?

Victor expressed his concern that search engines are not effective, and that he prefers students to access websites through library catalogue. Wayne expressed the concern that teachers are not teaching students internet search skills, but that he knows that many TLs are doing so, and is looking forward to seeing more skill development.

Wayne said that updating admin is indeed a high priority, but funding isn’t available yet, and that the DET is exploring two things for a library system
                1. long term solution and vision. ie what do we want in the future?
                2. transitional arrangements, to keep us going between then and now.

DET would prefer to buy a library system and possibly reconfigure some aspects, than reinvent one. Admin and library systems won’t need to be the same, but will need interoperability. They will think about web-based remote access library system in the future. There are a number of discussion forums on these issues, and ALIA and ASLA will be invited in future. Wayne will seek more info about the GProxy Library Enquiry export temporary solution.

1.2 Can there be better availability of introductory OASIS courses, more varied courses and ongoing training?

Rob talked about the process the newly amalgamated Professional Support and Curriculum Directorate is going through to determine future directions for professional development.

Trish pointed out that multitasking and required competencies are being re-examined in the SASS review.

The Senior Officers of the Federation, signed by Barry Johnson General Secretary,
wrote a letter to the Minister, ALIA, ASLA, PSA and TLSIG.  Excerpt:

'The Teachers Federation encourages members of the community,
or any organization, to lobby politicians on issues affecting
conditions for teaching and learning in public schools. It is the view
of the Senior Officers, however, that the Working Group [meeting
with DET] is traversing matters which should more properly be the
domain of the union and the employer. The Senior Officers of the
Teachers Federation view the current situation as being inappropriate.'

Trish Kelly (Personnel), Rob Randall (Professional Support and Curriculum), and Wayne Houston (Tech Services at ITD) gave us (Joyce, Roy, Guri, Sally and myself)  the opportunity to explain each of our issues. We worked through the four urgent priorities on Page 1 of issues/2002.htm

We will meet again in five to six weeks, to revise what has been done, and progress to the next.

1. RFF: Trish started by asking, if they did do something on the RFF (pending the budget solution), what would be the impact? i.e that it would be inappropriate to issue a memo without exploring the ramifications.

Both Rob and Wayne requested best practice examples, ie we could write them up. Colleen may wish to pick some of that up. I explained the problem that Scan hasn't been able to disseminate info about flex, integrated, non RFF library programs in the past as they can't contradict govt policy. Maybe ASLA? Otherwise there is a challenge for us all. (more another day) Did you know that Colleen has just been appointed PEO?

Rob and Trish will discuss further with Alan Laughlin (ADG), and start a dialogue with Primary Principals' Association. There was not a sense of an easy outcome.  : (   But they will explore it, and clarify it : ) Trish will ensure that the Minister is aware that RFF is a key, urgent priority.

2. Support classes: they understood, and it will depend on the resource bucket

3. SASS: There is a review of SASS happening, external consultants (Price Waterhouse Cooper) were hired to do a study, the report picks up in some of our issues, Trish will make sure that the review committee will be aware of the input from us, and look at library issues. Professional development will depend on the outcome of the review.

4. Seniors: Rob will investigate the current guidelines. Again, he said  'Show me where it is working, how has this been solved? Illustrate'
* He referred to the clearinghouse recommended by Vinson, as something we could use, dovetails into our needs in this.

They sometimes suggested exactly what YOU have been asking for, eg Rob again on supervision 'What form would the guidelines you want, take? What are the alternatives? For instance would it REINFORCE THE ROLE OF THE LIBRARY? Somebody added, still not to leave the TL to advocate, unsupported.

Re advocating...... Sally (Federation) wasn't happy with us being asked to present case study type stuff.

General impression? Some didn't think one size fits all. There may be more than one solution, they will consider options.

Meeting with Minister for Education Mr John Watkins, Monday 1st July, 2002

Present: John Watkins, one adviser, Trish Kelly (Director Personnel) Personnel,
Joyce Kirk & Leanne Cameron (ALIA), Roy Crotty & June Wall (ASLA),  Guri McKinnon & Maggie Roche (TLSIG)

 ½ hr 5.00 meeting late starting, Started at 5.15 / 5.20. Went till 6.00

 Issues discussed:

Painted a picture of role of TL in teaching & learning
Need for OASIS move to Windows
RFF, in detail, biggest issue
SASS
Seniors
Need for central recognition, guidance and direction
Need for more consultancy
Qualifications and training
Local recruitment (casuals) vs state requirement
Appointment of qual TLs

RFF issue needed to be explored, partly because of the perception of weekly lessons.

JW worked at getting understanding, was at times perplexed; overwhelmed by enormity of it.

He said he understood the seniors issue, completely agreed that it was inappropriate.
Asked What to do?
We suggested putting out a statement to principals.

He wanted to know what communication we have with the department :) We said none.
JW suggested setting up a working party, to get a forum started, to discuss issues more fully.

That will go ahead!
 
 

Click here for  2004  reports